Wish list for Season 2

Showtime brought us three seasons of this strong television drama, featuring large weekly doses of Jason Isaacs! Find articles, reviews, and viewer comments about Brotherhood--and add your own!

Moderators: thunder, kjshd05, Marie, fruitbat, Gillian, Chari910, catloveyes, Helen8, LadyLucius

CylonGirl
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 2:00 pm
Location: Schalke

Re: for second season

Post by CylonGirl » Tue May 01, 2007 4:39 pm

malfoygrandma wrote::?: Why will they not let us see Mike in hospital, in pain, in whatever, and recuperating?
Well, they will. But I do think he will end up in hotel-hospital-mamma. Will he ever change? No. Because - as you already said
the script writers wanted to have him
that way. Mike is as ambitious as Tommy and their way up to the top runs parallel. Mike and Tommy want to become the "King of the Hill". We see what Mike is dealing with and we see what Tommy is dealing with. The question is, who is really a criminal? Mike kills with bullets black mailing and Tommy with words and votes.

User avatar
Hilary the Touched
Site Registrant
Posts: 7031
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:11 pm
Location: The Frozen North
Contact:

Post by Hilary the Touched » Tue May 01, 2007 5:32 pm

(Welcome to you, CylonGirl! We're glad you've joined us!)
It's a pertinent point--Tommy's already well along a slippery slope to overt criminal activity--and we still haven't had explained to us what his and Michael's wrist tattoos symbolize?

CylonGirl
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 2:00 pm
Location: Schalke

Post by CylonGirl » Tue May 01, 2007 6:10 pm

Thanx for the warm welcome Hilary. Concerning the tatoo: Do you remember the scene where Tommy has a "discussion" with this other fellow politician in the store, before Tommy goes and makes a speach? Well, Tommy shows this tatoo to him to stress his argument. Well, I think every irish (proberbly boy) from the Hill has got it. It is a symbol of belonging to "the clan" from "the Hill". This creats a unity that might be stronger than some bag pipe musik or other "sentimental" cultural image. As seen in Tommy's engagement concerning "the Hill". Just a thought.....

User avatar
kjshd05
Data Miner, east coast division
Posts: 6299
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Post by kjshd05 » Wed May 02, 2007 6:07 am

CylonGirl, welcome to this great JI site...

When Michael gets into Freddie's SUV in the pilot episode, he shows the tattoo and says "Do I have to prove myself to you"...or something along that line...Seems everyone might have that tattoo who is either from that gang on the hill, or from there. Tommy probably has it because of being Mike's brother, and he was naturally part of "the gang". Maybe they started out as kids in a street gang, and it grew into something much larger from there.

The conflict between the brothers has been described as a "moral gray zone"...both Michael and Tommy operate within their own worlds, but dealing with situations from a different perspective. Gangster/Politician.

I think both professions work hand in hand, so to speak...

Most definitely, Ma Caffee will be falling all over Michael in an attempt to make him well. He is her favorite son. Will be interesting to see if Michael will remember who assaulted him...and how he will exact his revenge, or use the assault to his advantage.

With the addition of a cousin from Ireland, I think Mr Pete's days might be numbered. The cousin is family, Pete is not...We know how Michael feels about family....

Moira
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:00 am

Post by Moira » Wed May 02, 2007 7:37 pm

kjshd05 wrote:CylonGirl, welcome to this great JI site...

When Michael gets into Freddie's SUV in the pilot episode, he shows the tattoo and says "Do I have to prove myself to you"...or something along that line...Seems everyone might have that tattoo who is either from that gang on the hill, or from there. Tommy probably has it because of being Mike's brother, and he was naturally part of "the gang". Maybe they started out as kids in a street gang, and it grew into something much larger from there...
There seem to be levels to the tattoo. In the scene with Freddie, Freddie has a triangle. but Michael has a triangle with a dot. I take this to mean that Michael's tattoo signifies that he's done something that Freddie has yet to. Judging from Freddie's facial expression and Michael's tone of one-upmanship, that something is probably pretty harda$$.

The interesting thing is, Tommy has the same tattoo as Michael. I suspect that whatever it was that earned them the higher ranting tattoo might be something Tommy and Michael did together. Whatever it is, done together or seperately, it hints that Tommy has a darker past than has been revealed so far.

User avatar
Hilary the Touched
Site Registrant
Posts: 7031
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:11 pm
Location: The Frozen North
Contact:

Post by Hilary the Touched » Wed May 02, 2007 7:53 pm

That was my impression too, Moira--that you had to *earn* the extra markings that went with the triangle, and you didn't do it by selling more Girl Scout cookies :shock: .

Moira
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:00 am

Post by Moira » Wed May 02, 2007 8:08 pm

malfoygrandma wrote::roll: Are we all such psycological experts that we expect to do what thousands of so-called trained experts have not and will never be able to do, and that is give a real set of the signs of the psychotic, the roughneck, the thug, the bully, etc. I have been writing stories about these sorts for about forty years and have never assumed that I could tell you exactly how to spot one till he punches out your lights. But it certainly is fun to read all the interesting conjectures! Love this discussion!
Well, I consider myself somewhat of an expert, having spent five years with and around people like Michael, Pete, and a guy who was absolutely charming, and was later caught with a duct-taped twelve year old boy in his trunk. I didn’t spend a lot of time pointing at these people and saying, “You’re just a thug, you’re just a bully, you’re just a psycho nutjob.â€

Moira
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:00 am

Post by Moira » Wed May 02, 2007 8:57 pm

Hilary the Touched wrote:That was my impression too, Moira--that you had to *earn* the extra markings that went with the triangle...
Thinking back --because my bloody DVD player still doesn't work-- I think Michael and Tommy's triangles had one dot on the inside and one dot outside, and Freddie's had either one dot inside or no dots at all.
...and you didn't do it by selling more Girl Scout cookies :shock: .
Or maybe that's exactly what you had to do.

Young Freddie: "Ma, I'll shoot and stab a sonnuvva b*tch, I'll rip his balls off with my teeth, I'll rape a freakin' nun. But I am NOT sellin' those c***suckin' Carmel Delites!"

Meanwhile...

"Oh, it's nice Mikey Caffe and Tommy with the Scout cookies at the door! Gor bless 'im! Of coursse we'll take a dozen, Mikey, who can say no to you?"

lyra70
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:25 am

Post by lyra70 » Thu May 03, 2007 8:42 am

Moira, I appreciate what you are saying, I really do, and I know you are coming from a place of concern. But I want to assure you (since you don't know me) that I am the farthest person from needing to be convinced and warned about the dangers of accepting bad behavior from charming men. The fact that you have made a quiz for my daughter has made me see where you are coming from. And of course I don't blame you since I have seen some boards full of posts about how sexy and dangerous Michael Caffee is, etc. and that there seems to be a fascination for that.

Well rest assured I am the complete opposite of that, in fact, the whole fascination with JI began with "The State Within", although I had seen him in all the other villain roles before. It was TSW that captured me, then reading all his interviews and seeing what a class act and all around gentleman he actually is.

I like gentlemen. I do not need to be warned about the perils of being attracted to bad boys. If I ever found out a boy my daughter was dating dared raise his voice to her in anger I'd be very surprised, since in 15 years of marriage, even in our worst moments, my husband has never once shouted at me.

My favorite character of fiction? Atticus Finch. In a TV series? Captain Jean-Luc Picard. In film? It's a tie between George Bailey and Indiana Jones. Do you see a pattern here?

Actually, the whole reason I expressed a wish to see Michael Caffee fall in love is that frankly, I am tired of seeing Mr. Isaacs playing a bad guy ("I'm not playing a bad guy" - sorry, Jason, yes you are). I am tired of seeing JI cut people's ears off, bash their faces into pulp with a sledgehammer, blow up their brains, slice off their appendages, all the while sneering or looking coldly on. I might not get to see him playing the doomed best friend in "Good" and so far the type of varied roles I wish )and perhaps he wishes) would find him seem to elude him. And so I wistfully wish Michael Caffee would be given more flashes of vulnerability or moments of self-doubt. All my favorite scenes of him are the ones where he is uncertain or regretful or conflicted about his actions, because I get to watch Jason doing something other than just being a thug. So while I wouldn't want the character to pull a 180 and go Christian or something else that wouldn't sit right with the series, I would a least like him to do things other than just violence, violence, and yes more violence.

Moira
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:00 am

Post by Moira » Thu May 03, 2007 9:10 am

Whoa, lyra, miscommunication! :oops: Sorry! I never meant to imply that you yourself are ignorant of dangerous men, or to be so arrogant as to instruct you on how to parent your daughter. That quiz was made in fun, for fun.

These posts come from my fascination with the theme, constant in folk tales and fiction since god knows when, that men who are, almost unarguably, monsters, are capable of real, true, sincere, mature love. It's a Beauty and the Beast syndrome, IMO: That there is one woman (monogamy fantasy) with whom the monster can experience true love. Women seem to have a love affair with this kind of love affair, because, IMO, they wish they were the woman who was so loved that they could convert such a horror of a man. Almost every heterosexual woman seems attracted to that fantasy -- but I'm not saying that's your motivation for wanting to see Michael fall in love!

Personally, I'm prejudiced against the Beauty and the Beast theme. I think it encourages young women --well, women of any age-- to think, "If I love him enough, I can make him change," and to make excuses for monsterous behavior, or to blame themselves if the monster doesn't change.

I can't believe any sane woman would fall in love with Michael, if she knew everything about him. I'd hope a sane woman would turn his sexy ass in! I applaud BH's writers in that the women who're with Michael are screwed up.

I agree that it would interesting to watch Michael wrestle with an emotion with which he's unfamiliar, and to struggle between protecting the woman he loves from the dark world he's not willing to leave, or which won't leave him alone even if he did try to change or modify his lifestyle. My long-winded point has been, I just can't buy such a storyline, ever, about a man who commits terrible crimes so easily.

We'll both get to see what BH's writers decide he's capable of!

User avatar
Hilary the Touched
Site Registrant
Posts: 7031
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:11 pm
Location: The Frozen North
Contact:

Post by Hilary the Touched » Thu May 03, 2007 10:19 am

---am rushing in to agree with both Lyra and Moira.

I think one reason *most women* are okay with finding Michael so fascinating is that HE'S NOT REAL!! and therefore doesn't present any real danger, so we can fantasize or speculate all we want with no risk.

I also have to grudgingly concur that JI does seem to have established a niche for himself playing, well, complete whack-jobs, and it is at least refreshing to see him stretch a bit.
He is not the only person to observe that villains are generally much more interestingly written and multi-dimensional than cinematic heroes, so type-casting aside, they can offer a more challenging bit of work--but yeah, I still ain't given up on Good either.

Moira
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:00 am

Post by Moira » Thu May 03, 2007 10:27 am

Hilary the Touched wrote:---am rushing in to agree with both Lyra and Moira.

I think one reason *most women* are okay with finding Michael so fascinating is that HE'S NOT REAL!! and therefore doesn't present any real danger, so we can fantasize or speculate all we want with no risk.
Exactly! Being fiction, what wouldn't work in real life can work. Suspension of Disbelief is a wonderful thing.
I also have to grudgingly concur that JI does seem to have established a niche for himself playing, well, complete whack-jobs, and it is at least refreshing to see him stretch a bit.
He is not the only person to observe that villains are generally much more interestingly written and multi-dimensional than cinematic heroes, so type-casting aside, they can offer a more challenging bit of work--but yeah, I still ain't given up on Good either.
Only JI can make me like Michael Caffee. The man's a frickin' genuis when it comes to characters. One movement of his eyebrow can say a thousand words. **shakes head in awe** But yeah, villains are SO much more interesting than the heroes.

lyra70
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:25 am

Post by lyra70 » Thu May 03, 2007 3:44 pm

No worries, no harm done!
These posts come from my fascination with the theme, constant in folk tales and fiction since god knows when, that men who are, almost unarguably, monsters, are capable of real, true, sincere, mature love. It's a Beauty and the Beast syndrome, IMO: That there is one woman (monogamy fantasy) with whom the monster can experience true love. Women seem to have a love affair with this kind of love affair, because, IMO, they wish they were the woman who was so loved that they could convert such a horror of a man. Almost every heterosexual woman seems attracted to that fantasy -- but I'm not saying that's your motivation for wanting to see Michael fall in love!
For my part, as you have seen from my list of favorite characters, I am fascinated with the theme of the reluctant individual who is a good person trying to do the right thing and is drawn into situations where the need for honor and duty is greater than who they are, and they rise to the occasion but are conflicted during the process. So even though I know Michael Caffee ISN"T like this, I enjoy seeing him in a situation where he is uncomfortable or wrestling with some inner conscience of some kind. And this is why I am perhaps romanticizing the character more than I should be.

And Hil, I'm also still keeping crossed fingers for "Good"! In the meantime make more dioramas and I'll keep smiling!

User avatar
Helen8
Pillar of the Community
Posts: 9323
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:18 am
Location: SoCal

Post by Helen8 » Fri May 04, 2007 9:46 am

Well. She wasn't on my list for Season 2, but . . . we do get a (revised) start date from the Fall!!!!

West Wing's Moloney joining "Brotherhood"

LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - "West Wing" veteran Janel Moloney is joining the Showtime drama "Brotherhood," which begins its second season on July 9.



SPOILER FOLLOWS
----------------------------------------




She will appear in four episodes playing a woman who has an affair with ambitious local politician Tommy Caffee (Jason Clarke). The show also stars Jason Isaacs as Tommy's mobster brother, Michael.

Moloney is best known for her role as Donna Moss in NBC's "The West Wing." Her other credits include the title role in the CBS TV movie "Amber Frey: Witness for the Prosecution."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070504/tv_nm/showtime_dc_1

Helen

User avatar
Hilary the Touched
Site Registrant
Posts: 7031
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:11 pm
Location: The Frozen North
Contact:

Post by Hilary the Touched » Fri May 04, 2007 10:07 am

Bleh.
Not keen on that actress--interesting coincidence that she will now play JI's co-star's lover.

(Sorry, Helen--if Yahoo couldn't be bothered, I felt I ought.)

Post Reply